Posts by Disillusioned JW

52

Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

by truth_b_known in

being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

jehovah created humans.

jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

Disillusioned JW

Claiming temporary insanity, or other impaired mental condition, in a court of law has sometimes worked.

52

Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

by truth_b_known in

being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

jehovah created humans.

jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

Free will exists only in the sense of being free to act in accordance with our nature. But our human nature, as a result of our biology, includes built-in constraints as to what we can do and as to what we can not do. Definitely no personal deity is involved, and very probably no deistic creator is involved either.

28

Do you pray?

by Fisherman in

i’ve always had a personal relationship with god that is not affected by any issues or controversies i have with anybody..

Disillusioned JW

No.

68

Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was thinking a bit about this the other day.

ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.

some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....

Disillusioned JW

Thank you slimboyfat and Earnest for disproving many of the hurtful lies from long ago about Charles Taze Russell which were repeated in this forum topic about J. F. Rutherford.

Regarding Russell's degree of education, anyone who has read any of Russell's books can see that Russell's knowledge of English vocabulary and English language proficiency went beyond that of a sixth grade formal education. Even if the a person's formal education did not exceed that of sixth grade and even if that person did not receive any tutoring, that person could receive further education by informal means, including by extensive reading and by personal study. Such could have been the case of Russell. Furthermore, Russell received some knowledge of theology by his personal reading of the theological writings of others.

I'm not saying that Russell was correct in all of his theological teachings. He was in error in much of what he taught, but he also was correct in some of what he taught. For example, when he taught that the Bible teaches that the human soul dies and when said what he thought the Bible claims is the nature of the human soul, he was largely in agreement with what a number of biblical scholars had said the OT Bible teaches and of what the early Hebrews believed. Furthermore, a number of currently living biblical scholars (including Bart Ehrman) teach largely the same on those matters as Russell did.

36

Do you believe that this life is all there is

by Fisherman in

the bible records resurrections and there is orher evidence besides that gives hope.

what do you think, is there enough evidence to believe in another life?.

Disillusioned JW

Fisherman, I do not believe there is an afterlife. I very strongly believe that this life is all there is. I disbelieve the Bible's claims that someone supernatural exists, that something supernatural exists, that something supernatural happened, that supernatural events happen, and that supernatural events will happen. I think that in some cases (probably even in many cases) that the Bible writers were sincere in teaching a resurrection and the existence of the supernatural, but that they were in error in having those views. A number of times even when I was an active JW I had doubts that there would be a resurrection to life. A number of times even when I was an active JW I doubted that eternal life for humans (whether in heaven or on Earth) will ever be real.

Biahi I have seen copies of the book called Heaven Is for Real by pastor Todd Burpo and by Lynn Vincent, but I don't believe the book's claims that the boy actually went to heaven (though I believe that the authors might be sincere in the making the claims). An article at Psychology Today , by a professor of psychology, presents a skeptical analysis of the book. The article says in part the following.

"... Colton never died; according to the movie, his heart never stopped beating and his brain never stopped functioning. Since according to the modern Christian understanding, one’s soul doesn’t leave one’s body until one dies, the idea that Colton’s soul went to a Christian heaven is inconsistent with a modern Christian understanding of persons and death—a view it seems the Burpos endorse."

The writer of the article even states what the view of the authors of the OT regarding Sheol and regarding Paul's view of resurrection, and that such conflicts with the idea of a conscious human soul leaving the fleshly body. In part the professor says the following in the article about the views of the OT authors and of Paul.

"Those authors did not have the dualist understanding of persons that modern Christians like the Burpos endorse; those authors did not conceive of a person as a body and a soul, and they certainly didn't think that your soul separates from your body upon death to enter heaven. For example, the Old Testament authors had a monistic view of a person—a person is made of a single substance—and thought people (bad or good) went to Sheol when they die—a place beneath the ground where the dead simply sleep. (One does not experience Sheol.) For a special person like Elijah to not suffer such a fate and instead enter heaven, one's body must be physically taken there. The apostle Paul, as a Jew, would have been working with a similar understanding and in fact endorses such an understanding in his writings."

In the article the professor also says the following. "If you have to make excuses that are immune to evidence to save your theory from the evidence, that's likely because your theory is false. When making a claim about what has occurred in the world, the first thing a rational hypothesis needs to be is testable. But ad hoc excuses make hypotheses un-testable."

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Disillusioned JW

Vanderhoven7, are you a preterist? Do you believe Jesus made his second coming in 70 CE and that he thus will not come in the future? Do you believe a rapture of anointed Christians took place in 70 CE?

29

A group of 136 countries set a minimum global tax rate of 15% for big corporations

by Disillusioned JW in

a group of 136 countries set a minimum global tax rate of 15% for big corporations.

that is a major goal accomplished by the biden administration.

seehttps://www.wsj.com/articles/countries-agree-to-global-deal-to-curb-tax-avoidance-11633709979 .. if corresponding legislation gets passed into law in the usa it will be much harder for corporations doing business in the usa to move their operations out of the usa to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.

Disillusioned JW

I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I was saying what I was convinced of as being true. Years ago a postal clerk told me that and later I verified its accuracy on the internet. The government (congress?) does regulate how much the post office can charge for postage (and votes on proposed names for post office branches), but the post office raises their own money (through what they charge in postage and fees) to their customers. Perhaps I am in error about the post office's finances, but I meant what I said.

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Disillusioned JW

God believing people (whether Christian or Jewish) please consider something in the book called "According to Luke" which I opened up one my many different translations of the Bible to a day ago. Please read Luke 4:31-37. When you read it please ask yourself would a demon ever be in a house of worship of a congregation of the biblical God?

The account says a demon who was possessing a man was in a Jewish synagogue on the Sabbath day cried out. According to the biblical book this happened before Christian congregations existed (since Jesus hadn't died yet and the followers of Jesus attended synagogues and the Jewish temple). Is that which you believe is God's house, his place of worship, a place where one or more demons sometimes exist in while a meeting of worship is taking place to God? [This post relates to this topic thread about a generation of the anointed since the account, which I am referring to, says the demon proclaimed that Jesus is "the Holy One of God" (RV, ARV, and ASV Bibles).]

Furthermore, for those of you Christians who are rationally inclined do you really believe that a demon - the spirit of an unclean demon - would bear witness out loud (act as of one of YHWH God's Witnesses) to Jesus Christ as being the Holy One of God? Doesn't instead this account seem to you be contrived, to be pious fiction, in order to convert people to a form of Christianity? Keep in mind that in the first and second century CE many people were highly superstitious and that many gentiles (including Greeks) believed in the existence of multiple gods and demons (daemons/daimons) - including believing that some demons (daemons/daimons) were good, serving as helpers to humans and as intermediaries between humans and God). If this ancient idea of good demons is unfamiliar to you, please see https://greekerthanthegreeks.com/2016/10/lost-in-translation-word-of-day-demon.html and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaemon_(mythology) .

Consider that Acts 16:16-18 says there was a female slave who had a spirit of prediction (divination) which enabled her to make accurate predictions of the future and thus greatly financially profiting her masters, until Paul ordered the spirit in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. According to the account, before the spirit was called out of her, the spirit proclaimed that Paul and those with him are "servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to you the way to salvation" (RV/ARV, and ASV Bibles). Notice that this passage also says a spirit acted as a witness of God. The passage also said that the spirit told people how they can gain salvation. Do you who believe in demon spirits think that such spirits would ever make such public proclamations, even in a mocking manner? Yet people in the ancient world thought many demons (daemons/daimons) were good and acted as intermediaries between humans and the Most High God. Many such people (in or about the second century CE) reading those accounts in Luke and Acts would readily accept what those accounts were saying about the demons.

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Disillusioned JW

LV101, I invite you to start up topics on Lawrence Krauss' book and naturalism.

31

Is the FACT that no God/god ever communicates with humans evidence that no God/god exists?

by Disillusioned JW in

is the fact that no god/god ever communicates with us evidence that no god/god exists?

i think it is very strong evidence that no personal god/god exits, especially a benevolent god who wants humans to know him him/her/it, to obey him/her/it, and/or to love him/her/it.

since no god/god communicates to us (including those who sincerely want communication with the/a god/god), wouldn't it be sensible for those who pray to what they believe is the/a god/god to cease all efforts to communicate to a god/god?

Disillusioned JW

[Correction: In my post from a year earlier, on page three of this topic thread, where I said "There are many Christians who are convinced that God does answer prayers (not just their own prayers, but anyone's prayers)" I think I meant to say "There are many Christians who are convinced that God does not answer prayers (not just their own prayers, but anyone's prayers)".]

Hello Nephilim87. I was raised from infancy as a JW, became baptized as a JW while I was an underage teen, was a regular pioneer for nearly 3 full years, was a ministerial servant for several years, and even gave some 45 minute long Sunday Public Talks in a Kingdom Hall. In about the year 2000 or 2001 I had major doubts about the WT and the JW religion and was burned out from the routine of the religion. I thus choose to become inactive as a JW (other than attending the Memorial and local JW assemblies and conventions for several years). That provided me with much more free time. I used much of that additional free time to read the entire Bible (and to study much of it), including the Apocryphal books found in the Bible canons of the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Slavic Orthodox churches. I read all of it. I also read much of the book of Jubilees (it is part of the Bible of the Ethiopic Orthodox Church), all of the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas, portions of other Gnostic gospels, the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, and other books. To some degree I also increased my knowledge of of what scientists say pertaining to evolution.

Reading the Bible, and studying it carefully in a critical manner, contributed greatly to me ceasing to believe in Jehovah. That is because I noticed numerous problems in the Bible. Learning certain things (from a person in an online forum) about how the geologic record clearly disproves certain key things about the Genesis chapter one creation account and of the Genesis account of 'Noah's' flood convinced me that Jehovah/YHWH God did not inspire those accounts or other parts of the Bible. That along with earlier numerous things I had learned caused me to cease believing in the existence of Jehovah/YHWH God. What I learned of the geologic record also convinced me that Jesus was wrong to believe in the Genesis flood account and in the Genesis story of Adam and Eve, and that thus Jesus (whom the gospel book called "According to John" says made everything other than himself and God the Father) was not the son of God and not Christ.

Regarding the question of what evidence I was looking for from God after I prayed, I left it in God's figurative hands (if he existed) to reveal the evidence to me, evidence of a kind which he knew (if he existed) would convince me. I never became convinced again of his existence, nor did I become convinced that some other kind of God, such as a deistic god, exists.

But years later, for a number of days I was very nearly convinced that a deistic creator god exists (but not the biblical God nor any other alleged theistic God), due to me reading a book which I found out the WT had quoted form extensively in their Is There a Creator Who Cares About You? book (for a number of quotes of scientists). [I learned of the book as result of me making an intense concerted effort (after I had become an atheist) to discover the sources for the all of the quotes of scientists mentioned in the WT's Creator book (First Printing, copyright 1998).] The book is called Show Me God: What the Message from Space Is Telling Us About God (Wonders, 1), by Fred Heeren, and the WT quoted form the First Edition of the book (copyright 1995 or 1997). It is written by a science journalist who is convinced of the Big Bang theory and now also of biological evolution (with the biblical God playing a role in the process) and he also evangelizes for Christianity and he digs up fossils. The book interviews multiple scientists. The latter part of his book argues for evangelical Christianity. The WT does not mention the name of the book nor its author in the WT's Creator book. You might like the book. I seriously considered buying a copy of the latest revised edition of his book.

The book by Heeren severely shook my confidence in atheism and in scientific naturalism. I later regained my confidence in atheism and in scientific naturalism after I carefully read and studied certain scientific articles pertaining to the Big Bang and the rapid inflationary phase of the early universe, and as what existed before the Bang. One of the articles is published in Discover magazine. Other major factors which helped to me to regain my confidence were somethings I read in books by Victor Stenger regarding how an expanding universe makes room for localized order to come about despite the total entropy of the universe increasing.

I discovered the WT's Creator book quotes from a number of books authored by scientists who are Christians making intelligent design arguments in support of belief in God, and that in a few of those books the scientists also promote evangelical Christianity.